What is the female equivalent of fraternal, paternal, maternal ?

[Shaft Drive]

What is the female equivalent of fraternal?

- A mother has a maternal relationship to a male child.
- A father has a paternal relationship to that male child.
- A brother has a fraternal relationship to that male child.

But, what is the sibling sister's relationship to that male child?

I was filling out a medical form when I realized I had no idea how to
properly label the relationship. Of course, a cheap "mother" "father"
"brother" "sister" could work, (and does work for millions of unwitting
Americans), but, I've always felt it was wholly incorrect to label my
relationship to my child as "father" rather than as "paternal".

Hence my question:
- What is the designation of the relationship of a female sibling to
her brother properly called?

[Stephen Oakes]

sororal

--
Stephen Oakes

[John Dean]

Post by Stephen Oakes
sororal

And sororial is also known

[John O'Flaherty]

Post by Shaft Drive
What is the female equivalent of fraternal?
- A mother has a maternal relationship to a male child.
- A father has a paternal relationship to that male child.
- A brother has a fraternal relationship to that male child.
But, what is the sibling sister's relationship to that male child?
I was filling out a medical form when I realized I had no idea how to
properly label the relationship. Of course, a cheap "mother" "father"
"brother" "sister" could work, (and does work for millions of unwitting
Americans), but, I've always felt it was wholly incorrect to label my
relationship to my child as "father" rather than as "paternal".
- What is the designation of the relationship of a female sibling to
her brother properly called?

Sororal appears in AHD, though it's not commonly heard.
See how they react to 'sibbish'.
--
john

[Tony Cooper]

On 9 Mar 2005 18:54:48 -0800, "Shaft Drive"

Post by Shaft Drive
What is the female equivalent of fraternal?
- A mother has a maternal relationship to a male child.
- A father has a paternal relationship to that male child.
- A brother has a fraternal relationship to that male child.
But, what is the sibling sister's relationship to that male child?
I was filling out a medical form when I realized I had no idea how to
properly label the relationship. Of course, a cheap "mother" "father"
"brother" "sister" could work, (and does work for millions of unwitting
Americans), but, I've always felt it was wholly incorrect to label my
relationship to my child as "father" rather than as "paternal".
- What is the designation of the relationship of a female sibling to
her brother properly called?

"Sororal" is the form for sister, but no reader of the form would have
the slightest idea of what you meant.

[don groves]

Post by Tony Cooper
On 9 Mar 2005 18:54:48 -0800, "Shaft Drive"

Post by Shaft Drive
What is the female equivalent of fraternal?
- A mother has a maternal relationship to a male child.
- A father has a paternal relationship to that male child.
- A brother has a fraternal relationship to that male child.
But, what is the sibling sister's relationship to that male child?
I was filling out a medical form when I realized I had no idea how to
properly label the relationship. Of course, a cheap "mother" "father"
"brother" "sister" could work, (and does work for millions of unwitting
Americans), but, I've always felt it was wholly incorrect to label my
relationship to my child as "father" rather than as "paternal".
- What is the designation of the relationship of a female sibling to
her brother properly called?

"Sororal" is the form for sister, but no reader of the form would have
the slightest idea of what you meant.

Not even one who knows about Fraternities nad Sororities?

[Tony Cooper]

Post by don groves

Post by Tony Cooper
On 9 Mar 2005 18:54:48 -0800, "Shaft Drive"

Post by Shaft Drive
What is the female equivalent of fraternal?
- A mother has a maternal relationship to a male child.
- A father has a paternal relationship to that male child.
- A brother has a fraternal relationship to that male child.
But, what is the sibling sister's relationship to that male child?
I was filling out a medical form when I realized I had no idea how to
properly label the relationship. Of course, a cheap "mother" "father"
"brother" "sister" could work, (and does work for millions of unwitting
Americans), but, I've always felt it was wholly incorrect to label my
relationship to my child as "father" rather than as "paternal".
- What is the designation of the relationship of a female sibling to
her brother properly called?

"Sororal" is the form for sister, but no reader of the form would have
the slightest idea of what you meant.

Not even one who knows about Fraternities nad Sororities?

After I posted, I was thinking that the National Recording Secretary
of Chi Omega would probably know the word. However, my daughter - who
is a Chi Omega - wouldn't.

[Steve Hayes]

Post by don groves

Post by Tony Cooper
"Sororal" is the form for sister, but no reader of the form would have
the slightest idea of what you meant.

Not even one who knows about Fraternities nad Sororities?

And the Soroptomists.

[John Steele Gordon]

This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.

[Harvey Van Sickle]

On 10 Mar 2005, John Steele Gordon wrote

-snip-

Post by John Steele Gordon
By the way, is there an adjective associated with "aunt"?
Uncle/avuncular, aunt/?

That particular one's a rather famous "missing word", I believe.

[Paul Wolff]

Post by Harvey Van Sickle
-snip-

Post by John Steele Gordon
By the way, is there an adjective associated with "aunt"?
Uncle/avuncular, aunt/?

That particular one's a rather famous "missing word", I believe.

Isn't it 'tantivy' among the county set?

[Michael Mendelsohn]

Post by Harvey Van Sickle

Post by John Steele Gordon
By the way, is there an adjective associated with "aunt"?
Uncle/avuncular, aunt/?

That particular one's a rather famous "missing word", I believe.

If you need one, use "auntistic" or "auntastic", depending on whether
your aunt is more artistic or fantastic. ;)

Cheers
Michael

[Graeme Wall]

Post by Michael Mendelsohn

Post by Harvey Van Sickle

Post by John Steele Gordon
By the way, is there an adjective associated with "aunt"?
Uncle/avuncular, aunt/?

That particular one's a rather famous "missing word", I believe.

If you need one, use "auntistic" or "auntastic", depending on whether
your aunt is more artistic or fantastic. ;)

Just hope she isn't autistic...

[CE Wood]

"Kenneth G. Wilson (1923-). The Columbia Guide to Standard American
English. 1993.

avuncular (adj.)

means "typical of or suitable to an uncle"; it also has figurative
senses meaning "kind, indulgent, undemanding, sexless": His
treatment of her was more avuncular than amorous. It's perhaps a
cliché in its most frequent company, avuncular advice. A curiosity:
English has no similar adjective to deal with matters or qualities
typical of an aunt: auntish and auntlike are about as close as we can
come."

CE Wood

Post by John Steele Gordon

Post by Tony Cooper
On 9 Mar 2005 18:54:48 -0800, "Shaft Drive"
"Sororal" is the form for sister, but no reader of the form would have
the slightest idea of what you meant.

I once brought a sick pussycat into a veterinary hospital and had to fill
"Felis catus." The nurse who looked over the form abruptly crossed that out
and substituted "cat." So much for scientific precision.
By the way, is there an adjective associated with "aunt"?

Uncle/avuncular,

Post by John Steele Gordon
aunt/?
I wonder if there is a dictionary of adjectives. You look up the noun and it
gives you the adjective. English, for some mysterious reason, often has
Latin or Greek adjectives associated with Anglo-Saxon nouns.

Heart/cardiac,

Post by John Steele Gordon
kidney/renal, liver/hepatic, stomach/gastric, dog/canine, cow/bovine,
twilight/crepuscular, etc. etc.
JSG

[D. Spencer Hines]

One can easily CREATE an adjective to deal with things typical of an
AUNT.

AMITAN ---- referring to a father's sister.

MATERTERAN ---- referring to a mother's sister.

Or, simply choose one over the other and use it all the time --
MATERTERAN will do.

That's what we have already done with AVUNCULAR -- from AVUNCULUS, a
mother's brother.

If we wanted to be more precise and sticklers we should probably be
saying:

PATRUUSAN when referring to a father's brother -- from PATRUUS.

But English takes liberties and simplifies -- which is one of its
geniuses.

D. Spencer Hines

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Vires et Honor

[Harvey Van Sickle]

Post by D. Spencer Hines
One can easily CREATE an adjective to deal with things typical of an
AUNT.

Of course one *can* do so.

But the central point of interest is that -- unlike "avuncular" --
Enlgish *as it is spoken by Englishmen* has never chosen to do so.

[D. Spencer Hines]

Irrelevant.

COIN your own word if you see the need to do so.

That's the way a language grows.

COIN it, DEFINE it, USE it....

Duck Soup....

Don't fraudulently truncate my posts without proper indications of
having done so -- using ELLIPSES. Vide infra.

Do learn how to spell ENGLISH too.

It's especially important to do so when you are posting to English
Language Usage groups. Vide infra.

D. Spencer Hines

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Vires et Honor
--------------------------

One can easily CREATE an adjective to deal with things typical of an
AUNT.

AMITAN ---- referring to a father's sister.

MATERTERAN ---- referring to a mother's sister.

Or, simply choose one over the other and use it all the time --
MATERTERAN will do.

That's what we have already done with AVUNCULAR -- from AVUNCULUS, a
mother's brother.

If we wanted to be more precise and sticklers we should probably be
saying:

PATRUUSAN when referring to a father's brother -- from PATRUUS.

But English takes liberties and simplifies -- which is one of its
geniuses.

D. Spencer Hines

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Vires et Honor

"Harvey Van Sickle" <***@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:***@194.168.222.124...

| On 10 Mar 2005, D. Spencer Hines wrote
|
| > One can easily CREATE an adjective to deal with things typical of an
| > AUNT.
|
| Of course one *can* do so.
|
| But the central point of interest is that -- unlike "avuncular" --
| Enlgish [sic] *as it is spoken by Englishmen* has never chosen to do
| so.
|
| --
| Cheers, Harvey
|
| Ottawa/Toronto/Edmonton for 30 years;
| Southern England for the past 22 years.
| (for e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van)

[Stephen Oakes]

Post by D. Spencer Hines
Don't fraudulently truncate my posts without proper indications of
having done so -- using ELLIPSES. Vide infra.

Get your hand off it.

--
Stephen Oakes

[Harvey Van Sickle]

Post by D. Spencer Hines
Irrelevant.
COIN your own word if you see the need to do so.
That's the way a language grows.
COIN it, DEFINE it, USE it....

And if no one else adopts it, it fails to become part of the languagee:
it doesn't "catch", it dies.

An adjective for "aunt" has never caught on. It is therefore not part
of the language.

Q.E.D.

[d***@yahoo.com]

Post by Harvey Van Sickle

Post by D. Spencer Hines
Irrelevant.
COIN your own word if you see the need to do so.
That's the way a language grows.
COIN it, DEFINE it, USE it....

He's right! Look at what the ghetti have done!

Post by Harvey Van Sickle
And if no one else adopts it, it fails to become part of the
it doesn't "catch", it dies.
An adjective for "aunt" has never caught on. It is therefore not part
of the language.
Q.E.D.
--
Cheers, Harvey
Ottawa/Toronto/Edmonton for 30 years;
Southern England for the past 22 years.
(for e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van)

[don groves]

Post by D. Spencer Hines
Irrelevant.
COIN your own word if you see the need to do so.
That's the way a language grows.
COIN it, DEFINE it, USE it....
Duck Soup....
Don't fraudulently truncate my posts without proper indications of
having done so -- using ELLIPSES. Vide infra.
Do learn how to spell ENGLISH too.
It's especially important to do so when you are posting to English
Language Usage groups. Vide infra.
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
--------------------------
One can easily CREATE an adjective to deal with things typical of an
AUNT.
AMITAN ---- referring to a father's sister.
MATERTERAN ---- referring to a mother's sister.
Or, simply choose one over the other and use it all the time --
MATERTERAN will do.
That's what we have already done with AVUNCULAR -- from AVUNCULUS, a
mother's brother.
If we wanted to be more precise and sticklers we should probably be
PATRUUSAN when referring to a father's brother -- from PATRUUS.
But English takes liberties and simplifies -- which is one of its
geniuses.
D. Spencer Hines

You're Albert Silverman aren't you?

[Joanne Marinelli]

Post by Harvey Van Sickle

Post by D. Spencer Hines
One can easily CREATE an adjective to deal with things typical of an
AUNT.

Of course one *can* do so.
But the central point of interest is that -- unlike "avuncular" --
Enlgish *as it is spoken by Englishmen* has never chosen to do so.

Why this particular qualification? English as it is spoken by Englishmen is
arguably now in the minority.

Joanne

Post by Harvey Van Sickle
--
Cheers, Harvey
Ottawa/Toronto/Edmonton for 30 years;
Southern England for the past 22 years.
(for e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van)

[Harvey Van Sickle]

Post by Joanne Marinelli

Post by Harvey Van Sickle

Post by D. Spencer Hines
One can easily CREATE an adjective to deal with things typical
of an AUNT.

Of course one *can* do so.
But the central point of interest is that -- unlike "avuncular"
-- Enlgish *as it is spoken by Englishmen* has never chosen to do
so.

Why this particular qualification? English as it is spoken by
Englishmen is arguably now in the minority.

Entirely my error; sorry.

I realised after I posted it that I was thinking of -- and should have
written -- "English as it is spoken by speakers of English".

[d***@yahoo.com]

Post by Joanne Marinelli

Post by Harvey Van Sickle

Post by D. Spencer Hines
One can easily CREATE an adjective to deal with things typical of an
AUNT.

Of course one *can* do so.
But the central point of interest is that -- unlike "avuncular" --
Enlgish *as it is spoken by Englishmen* has never chosen to do so.

Why this particular qualification? English as it is spoken by

Englishmen is

Post by Joanne Marinelli
arguably now in the minority.

OMFG!! LOLOLOLOL! It's like a terrorist convenetion in here! Quick,
someone invite Yassir Arafat! I NEVER thought I'd live to see the day
when DHS and Marinutti were having a ACTUAL CONVO wit each other!
Quick, get Bun Mui & Shaa Kaa Khan too!

[Mike Lyle]

Post by Harvey Van Sickle

Post by D. Spencer Hines
One can easily CREATE an adjective to deal with things typical of an
AUNT.

Of course one *can* do so.
But the central point of interest is that -- unlike "avuncular" --
Enlgish *as it is spoken by Englishmen* has never chosen to do so.

I'm not planning to join the thread, but Google tells me nobody's
mentioned the impeccable and potentially useful coinage "auntly".
OED1 has two examples, both from letters by Victorian women. I think
I've occasionally heard it in conversation; and wouldn't be at all
surprised to find it in, for example, Wodehouse.

Mike.

[Harvey Van Sickle]

Post by Mike Lyle

Post by Harvey Van Sickle

Post by D. Spencer Hines
One can easily CREATE an adjective to deal with things typical of

an

Post by Harvey Van Sickle

Post by D. Spencer Hines
AUNT.

Of course one *can* do so.
But the central point of interest is that -- unlike "avuncular" --
Enlgish *as it is spoken by Englishmen* has never chosen to do so.

I'm not planning to join the thread, but Google tells me nobody's
mentioned the impeccable and potentially useful coinage "auntly".
OED1 has two examples, both from letters by Victorian women. I think
I've occasionally heard it in conversation; and wouldn't be at all
surprised to find it in, for example, Wodehouse.

It's an excellent suggestion, as it sounds entirely normal -- but
although it should perhaps be more widely used, I don't think it's in
common circulation.

[Paul Wolff]

Post by Mike Lyle

Post by Harvey Van Sickle

Post by D. Spencer Hines
One can easily CREATE an adjective to deal with things typical of

an

Post by Harvey Van Sickle

Post by D. Spencer Hines
AUNT.

Of course one *can* do so.
But the central point of interest is that -- unlike "avuncular" --
Enlgish *as it is spoken by Englishmen* has never chosen to do so.

I'm not planning to join the thread, but Google tells me nobody's
mentioned the impeccable and potentially useful coinage "auntly".
OED1 has two examples, both from letters by Victorian women. I think
I've occasionally heard it in conversation; and wouldn't be at all
surprised to find it in, for example, Wodehouse.

Whence 'mastodonnish': pertaining to a Damascene[1] educator.

[1] St John of Damascus[2] (to make the reference quite clear).

[2] Whose best-seller was The Fount of Knowledge, (to lead the horses
even closer to water[3]).

[3] Or to milk, in this case[4].

[4] A passing allusion to casein, the principal albuminous constituent
thereof.

[Charles Riggs]

On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 21:40:06 -0000, "D. Spencer Hines"
<***@hotmail.com> wrote:

...

Here's an event not to be overlooked: a return of The Dispenser.
Where's Bob Lieblich when we need him?

[d***@yahoo.com]

Post by Charles Riggs
On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 21:40:06 -0000, "D. Spencer Hines"
...
Here's an event not to be overlooked: a return of The Dispenser.
Where's Bob Lieblich when we need him?
--
Charles Riggs

LOLOLOL! Riggs, I don't know about you, but I just creamed my pants
over this! I can now die a happy man! This is GREAT! Liebs is
missing all the fun! I'ma be PARTAYING IN DA GHETTO all night long!!
I haven't been this happy in the AUE since poor CJ left! FREE CJ!

[Harry]

Post by Shaft Drive
What is the female equivalent of fraternal?

This came up in a recent online chat in which I was participating, and my
rather flippant reply was that perhaps "sororal" shout fit. Turns out that
it's in many dictionaries, with a definition of "sisterly," or "like or
characteristic of or befitting a sister," etc. I'd never seen or heard it
used before, but you just never know...

hm

[n***@verizon.net]

On 9 Mar 2005 18:54:48 -0800, "Shaft Drive"

Post by Shaft Drive
What is the female equivalent of fraternal?

Sororal, as already provided. U.S. sororities might use it in their
publications. It occassionally appears in legal documents though it
is not a preferred term, "sisterly" being sufficient and plain in
meaning most of the time. Example: "X and Y, sisters, agree that X's
provision of ova and/or other genetic material to Y occurs due to
sororal affection alone; no contractual understanding or bargain or
expectation of legal consideration, either to the other, shall be
regarded as existing in association with their sororal agreement."

Post by Shaft Drive
But, what is the sibling sister's relationship to that male child?

"Sister". Sororal is an adjective. The proper name of the
relationship of a sibling sister to a sibling brother is "sister".

Post by Shaft Drive
I was filling out a medical form when I realized I had no idea how to
properly label the relationship. Of course, a cheap "mother" "father"
"brother" "sister" could work, (and does work for millions of unwitting
Americans), but, I've always felt it was wholly incorrect to label my
relationship to my child as "father" rather than as "paternal".

The proper label or name of your relationship to your children is
"father". "Paternal" would be useful as an adjective, such as in "X,
while an active paternal caregiver, has not achieved psychological
presence as a parent in the minds of the subject children within the
last 3 years. They regard Y as their father, despite X being their
actual biological and legal father. Therefore X's claim that the
children are subject to paternal deprivation according to the Tyson
standard is false, and instead granting X's request would newly create
paternal deprivation under Tyson if X cannot in fact improve his
paternal efforts to achieve actual psychological presence as a father
in his children's minds."

"Sister" can refer to a genetic or a kinship relationship, while
"sororal" has only been used for kinship relations, which might
coincide with a genetic relationship or might not. In most US states
(and most European kinship systems I believe) genetic relationships
and kinship relationships do not necessarily mirror each other in all
details. A "blood" sister and an adopted sister are equally or
identically sisters in kinship relations, at least as kinship is
defined in most US states, though genetically they are radically
different. This is something to keep in mind when filling out medical
forms and deciding whether to use the proper "sister" or craft some
sort of complex term that lets you sneak "sororal" in.

Post by Shaft Drive
- What is the designation of the relationship of a female sibling to
her brother properly called?

Sister.

[meirman]

In alt.english.usage on 9 Mar 2005 18:54:48 -0800 "Shaft Drive"

Post by Shaft Drive
What is the female equivalent of fraternal?
- A mother has a maternal relationship to a male child.
- A father has a paternal relationship to that male child.
- A brother has a fraternal relationship to that male child.
But, what is the sibling sister's relationship to that male child?
I was filling out a medical form when I realized I had no idea how to
properly label the relationship. Of course, a cheap "mother" "father"
"brother" "sister" could work, (and does work for millions of unwitting
Americans), but, I've always felt it was wholly incorrect to label my
relationship to my child as "father" rather than as "paternal".

I sort of agree, except that "father" is short for "My relationship is
that I am his father".

Post by Shaft Drive
- What is the designation of the relationship of a female sibling to
her brother properly called?

s/ meirman If you are emailing me please
say if you are posting the same response.

Born west of Pittsburgh Pa. 10 years
Indianapolis, 7 years
Chicago, 6 years
Brooklyn NY 12 years
now in Baltimore 20 years

[Michael Rolfe]

Post by Shaft Drive
What is the female equivalent of fraternal?
- A mother has a maternal relationship to a male child.
- A father has a paternal relationship to that male child.
- A brother has a fraternal relationship to that male child.
But, what is the sibling sister's relationship to that male child?

If you want to be understood, "sisterly."

Post by Shaft Drive
I was filling out a medical form when I realized I had no idea how to
properly label the relationship. Of course, a cheap "mother" "father"
"brother" "sister" could work, (and does work for millions of unwitting
Americans), but, I've always felt it was wholly incorrect to label my
relationship to my child as "father" rather than as "paternal".
- What is the designation of the relationship of a female sibling to
her brother properly called?

[Stephen Oakes]

Post by Michael Rolfe
If you want to be understood, "sisterly."

Personally I don't think that is specific enough. You can have a "sisterly"
relationship with someone who is not your sister.

--
Stephen Oakes

[Evan Kirshenbaum]

Post by Stephen Oakes

Post by Michael Rolfe
If you want to be understood, "sisterly."

Personally I don't think that is specific enough. You can have a
"sisterly" relationship with someone who is not your sister.

I'd say that all of the others--"fraternal", "maternal", "paternal",
"avuncular", etc.--can be extended metaphorically as well.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |Ye knowe ek, that in forme of speche
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 | is chaunge
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |Withinne a thousand yer, and wordes
| tho
***@hpl.hp.com |That hadden prys now wonder nyce and
[phone] | straunge
|Us thenketh hem, and yet they spake
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ | hem so
| Chaucer

[Stephen Oakes]

Post by Evan Kirshenbaum

Post by Stephen Oakes

Post by Michael Rolfe
If you want to be understood, "sisterly."

Personally I don't think that is specific enough. You can have a
"sisterly" relationship with someone who is not your sister.

I'd say that all of the others--"fraternal", "maternal", "paternal",
"avuncular", etc.--can be extended metaphorically as well.

Possibly. Think of it this way then...a "sororal" nephew is not the same as
a "sisterly" nephew. :-)

As you were...

--
Stephen Oakes

[Don Phillipson]

Post by Shaft Drive
What is the female equivalent of fraternal?
- A mother has a maternal relationship to a male child.
- A father has a paternal relationship to that male child.
- A brother has a fraternal relationship to that male child.
But, what is the sibling sister's relationship to that male child?

English lacks discrete terms for all likely
close relationships. Most obviously brother's
relationships with his siblings are usually called
fraternal, whether with girls or boys. No unique
word identifies a male's relationship with his sister
or a woman's with her brother.

[Bill McCray]

On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 16:17:43 -0500, "Don Phillipson"

Post by Don Phillipson

Post by Shaft Drive
What is the female equivalent of fraternal?
- A mother has a maternal relationship to a male child.
- A father has a paternal relationship to that male child.
- A brother has a fraternal relationship to that male child.
But, what is the sibling sister's relationship to that male child?

English lacks discrete terms for all likely
close relationships. Most obviously brother's
relationships with his siblings are usually called
fraternal, whether with girls or boys. No unique
word identifies a male's relationship with his sister
or a woman's with her brother.

We could coin "sibular".

Bill

Swap first and last parts of username and ISP for address.